Growth and success come only through continuous effort and learning from your mistakes. In today’s episode, CEO of Breakthrough3X, Dan Kuschell, talks about his creative strategies and tips and tricks in increasing growth and profits and simultaneously making a more significant impact, reach, and contribution. Beyond his successes, Dan also reveals the lessons he learned from his mistakes and that of other people. Learn why not knowing the details of what your virtual assistants do can be a good thing. He also touches on how to spot red flags when hiring and partnering with others and how to stay true to your core values. Join Dan Kuschell in this engaging conversation and take your business to the next level.
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The other struggle with being able to find the right people to do the things you need to get done. There’s a great solution that we stumbled across a couple of years back with Nathan in FreeeUp and I can’t say enough good things about their company, the type of talent they have. We’ve used them for a variety of different tasks, a variety of different projects. We’ve got a couple of their team members who are adopted almost semi full-time team members. If you’re looking for a way to simplify, getting stuff done, do more with less, I encourage you to check out what FreeUp is doing. Take advantage of their resources and watch how it can help you multiply your business and your time. Our show is about freedom and growth. It helps you free yourself up out of more of the day-to-day tasks so you can focus on those higher-level things. Work with them. You won’t go wrong.
My guest is Dan Kuschell. Dan, how are you doing?
I’m doing fantastic, Nathan. I’m good to be here.
I know we’ve met numerous times. You’re a FreeeUp client. For those of you that don’t know, Dan is a husband, dad, serial entrepreneur and Angel investor. He’s the Founder and CEO of Breakthrough3X. He helps business owners connect the dots, see blind spots and get unstuck by implementing unique sales and marketing systems to increase growth and profits while making a bigger impact and reach contribution with almost 30 years of business experience. He has coached over 5,000 businesses. We’re going to talk all about that but first, let’s take a gigantic step back. What were you like growing up? Are you a straight-A student? Were you a rebel? Did you know you wanted to be an entrepreneur?
It’s a unique combination, Nathan. The best way I would describe it is I was known as an athlete, growing up as a kid. I grew up in the inner city of Southwest Detroit, near a school called Southwestern High School, which is a basketball machine and creating great athletes. I thought sports or baseball would be my way out of the city. There were times my family was on welfare. My dad worked for a big auto manufacturer. He got laid off and for me that meant insecurity. It meant a lack of stability and certainty. I didn’t want that. I can remember as being as young as ten years old. At that point, through sports and through the idea of building a business is when it started to click.
Fast forward while I was in college, I had a bunch of injuries and baseball didn’t quite work out. That’s my way of saying I wasn’t good enough. What happened is when I was going to college, I was playing baseball in the off-season. My sister had gotten me a position at this direct marketing company that focused in direct mail, TV and radio. I fell in love with the idea of human behavior, the psychology, how we put these mail campaigns out and people would respond and pay money. We’d run a TV out of a 62nd commercial on TV or on radio and people would be calling, hundreds of calls and droves for these campaigns that we created out of thin air and bill. I fell in love with it and I decided to start my first company right out of college.
I hadn’t finished college. I was 22 years old and I thought we could do it better, we can do it smarter. That was the start. Since that time, I’ve built and grown eleven companies. What does that mean also? I crashed three companies. I buried three of them in the backyard. We don’t talk a lot about that, but I did. Those t-shirts soiled and all those things. I’ve had a fair amount of successes, several 7 and 8-figure companies. I’ve been fortunate to buy and sell companies. We get to help a lot of entrepreneurs and business owners in many ways. Reduce suffering and get out of overwhelm and connect the dots to have a better sales and marketing system to create a steady flow of leads, sales and profitability.
Let’s talk about the failures. Was there any big lesson that you learned maybe that caused all three or were they all for different reasons or anything that you still apply?
There are so many learning lessons. How would you feel if you ran? You had all your hopes in one basket of running this big magazine ad campaign and put $25,000, $30,000 into it. You thought it was going to transform your business and you put this campaign out and the phone doesn’t even ring once. The only call was you checking the lines to make sure all this stuff was hooked up. I have many failures like that too. If I had to pick the biggest mistakes I’ve made, I would say it was being so hungry to chase the opportunity and chase the deal or chase the money that at times, I’ve teamed up or partnered with the wrong kind of people on our team or in business choosing the wrong clients. That’s been a hard lesson over the years. It’s been very costly. It could probably cost tens of millions of dollars when it’s all been sent done for a variety of reasons. I’ve learned and I feel like I’ve got a much better understanding of not making decisions based on one factor like money.
Having a filter process to make better decisions, not with opportunities, but all things. I don’t know if it would be helpful to share a little bit about that process. I learned this originally, Nathan, from Dan Sullivan at Strategic Coach who’s brilliant. I’ve refined it over the years to be able to fit into this framework that works well. He calls this an opportunity filter and there are five criteria. When you come together to work with people, do they appreciate each other? In other words, you grow together and then the separate side of that is gratitude. You strike me as somewhat in all of our communication, being someone who’s very grateful about life in general, let alone all the amazing things that you’re doing. The people you attract in. I saw you interviewed Tony Grebmeier and talking about building an eight-figure business. Tony’s one of the most grateful people, human beings you’ll ever meet. Another friend of ours is Alex Charfen. These are people who come from gratitude. When you’re together, you appreciate each other and there’s a sense of gratitude. The next filter piece is enhanced. Do you enhance each other? Think that as you’re reading this, think about some of these things as you’re working, partnering, even team members, how people might fit in. It’s appreciate, enhance, and utilize.
Would you truly utilize each other? A good friend of ours, Joe Polish says, “Are we eating each other’s dog food?” In other words, would we use each other? Would we buy that product or that program without any incentive at all? Are we open and willing without an incentivization to refer each other? That’s something to take to heart. The last criteria is the financial reward. As I’ve learned over the years, Nathan, in making a lot of mistakes with hiring the wrong people, hiring the wrong partners, hiring the wrong coming. Having partners that were wrong. Having wrong clients, all these different messes that I got myself into over the years. I feel so much greater peace, greater freedom, and better decision making by essentially going through the checkbox of each of these five. Why am I here? I’m going to show with you. You’re an amazing guy doing amazing things, using your services. It has been a huge multiplier for. It was in total easy, yes. It also checks all of these five boxes I went through. I know what it’s done for me. Dan Sullivan has taught this to tens of thousands of people and it’s also helped them too.
I’ve learned over the years to remove yourself from situations, whether it’s a potential partnership, hire or it could be a client, a random connection, anything that’s negative, anyone that doesn’t have that integrity, that doesn’t have that same vision and beliefs. My business partner, Connor and I, we couldn’t be more different people, but we have the exact same beliefs when it comes to treating people right and handling business decisions and. I agree that’s a huge factor. What are some of the red flags that you’ve seen that right away are like, “I can’t work with that person?”
There’s more than a couple. Here’s a real sample. We have a hiring system that we teach. It’s a marketing system for hiring. One of the tailends of it is you take someone out on purpose to breakfast or lunch and you watch how they treat people and handle themselves in a situation over that. You can learn more in about 15 to 20 minutes of somebody in a non-business setting, then you can in yours in a professional business environment. That’s a simple way where you can start to see red flags. I forget who came up with this whether it was my dad, we’ve all heard versions of this. Be careful of how you treat people on the way up because they’re the same people you meet on the way down. All of our families probably have some version of that. It’s about staying grounded. That’s a huge one attitude towards people in service. That is a big one.
It’s costing me by not paying as much attention to that at times. Another one, T. Harv Eker has a quote, “How you do anything is how you do everything.” When we work with clients, Nathan, and we help clients grow and scale with less stress. A campaign doesn’t magically work better because you scale it and make it bigger. If it’s not working small, it’s not going to work big. It’s the same thing in a relationship. It’s not working in the beginning, it’s not going to get infinitely better later on. Be wary of how things go in your initial stages in a relationship. That doesn’t mean they’re bad people. It means your way of operating may not be right. Another good one is modes of operation. One of the tools we use in hiring is a tool called Kolbe. There are multiple different types of that like DISC and many others. We’ve become very fond of Kolbe. We have an affinity to it because this one instead of being more maybe personality-driven, it’s based on your natural way of handling things, your behavior naturally and instinctively that you do effortlessly and many times with joy.
With the Kolbe assessment, we like to look at how people match up in their styles, the way they handle things. That plays a huge factor. For example, one of my failures and learning lessons as Dan Sullivan calls it, extreme market research, is that I had a failed marriage along the way of this journey building businesses. I’ve at times been a workaholic. It’s easy for me to be a workaholic. It’s easy for me to work 100 hours a week and I enjoy it. I find joy in creating, developing, building and such. I was in a marriage where I gave my wife leftovers. If you give your spouse or your partner leftovers, the outcome is inevitable. For me, that’s what happened. Unfortunately, I had a divorce. It was crazy. It was hell, frankly, partially because of my behavior but also because of our styles not matching up well.
This ties in the Kolbe assessment, not only in business but also in personal relationships that can help each other understand how to best serve each other. Those are a handful that I think are really critical. How people behave in their natural way under stress. You can learn more about somebody in distress in ten minutes, then you can and when everything’s great over time. Those are a fill. Some are related to a role that they play. With what you do at FreeUp if you have someone in an admin role and they have to pay attention to details. If they’re not very good with details in the beginning, they’re not going to be infinitely better later on. Those early signs mean all the world if you know the difference.
How you do anything is how you do everything.
Working with freelancers, virtual assistants, agencies that are remote and stuff happens in their personal lives. Throughout the day we have thousands of freelancers. There’s always something that goes on. How they handle those stressful times, how they handle the worst times in their life is a reflection of how they’re going to do it going forward. If the second that something happens in their personal life, all hell breaks loose and all the balls drop, the communication isn’t there, they start making bad decisions, they start getting aggressive or whatever it is, that’s a huge red flag as well.
There’s a great quote from Mike Tyson that will fit this example pretty well, “Everybody’s got a plan until they get hit and knocked down.” We all get knocked down. As a business owner, you’re going to get knocked down a lot and probably more than the average person. Can you take that punch? When you get that punch, how are you going to handle it? With the people around you, how do they handle that punch? My son, he’s eleven years old, he plays football and he’s a quarterback. You see these kids and they look good in a t-shirt. They can look good running routes with no defense out there. They can look amazing many times. What happens when you put a defense out there? Even more importantly, not only do you have a defense, but what happens when the two blitzers coming? Is that kid able to stand in there and handle that theoretical pressure? Some kids can’t. Many kids break under that duress. It shows up in all walks of life. How you handle anything is in many ways a reflection of how you’ll handle everything. You can tell the size of a person by the obstacles it takes to knock him off track. Pay attention to those little details as you’re building your team, building your following. The great thing about FreeUp is that you’ve got a screening system that’s already been done for you ahead of them meeting you, which is pretty cool too.
I love that you’re talking about this because this is something that I teach my internal team to look out for. As they’re interacting with freelancers or clients and all this stuff is going on. Look for those red flags because if they’re doing bad things, whether it’s being aggressive or being rude to one of my assistants in the beginning that’s only going to escalate as you get more and more deeper down the line in projects. Let’s talk about the people you hire. I believe you have a combination of people in the US. You’ve got some non-US people from me. How do you structure it? What does that setup look like?
It depends on the department. At my peak, I had over 200 employees. I look at most businesses as is a simple chart. If you could picture at the top of any organization you’ve got the visionary creator, you’ve got the visionary genius, probably at FreeeUp, it’s you. Getting a chance to know you I would bet dollars and donuts that you. You’re the visionary driver momentum. Probably, you could do 100 hours pretty easy a week and be parged up from that. You’re the visionary. The second category is what some people would call the integrator, implementer type person that can take the vision of the visionary and make it real. Solomon says, “Visionaries make it up. Implementers make it real.” This could be one or it could be a couple of people in different places. It’s the idea of having an implementer, integrator or facilitator that can get stuff done.
A bunch of ideas means nothing if the rubber doesn’t meet the road and stuff gets done. Having that person, which your team does a good job of helping find those implementers. It’s compartmentalized into four main categories of business. When we had 200 employees, these things start to expand out underneath each other. You have multiple implementers over the top of these divisions, but when you’re a small lean company, it could look as simple as this. Sometimes when you’re starting, if you’re brand new and starting your business, while you’re wearing hats in each of these six buckets. Eventually, you want to free yourself up and put that hat on someone else. Get someone in that role to run it and manage it or oversee it for you. Delegate it, don’t abdicate it. The four other main categories of the business, Nathan, that I’ve looked at and how we structure things. You’ve got marketing functions and there’s a certain skillset capability wise for marketing.
You’ve got sales, which I believe and what we’ve found to be more effective as you separate sales from the market. A lot of people merge them together and we have found that you pull those apart and get it to optimize and be far more efficient and effective. You’ve got operations, which is a separate function. A lot of fulfillment and stuff fits under there and then you’ve got finance. If you think about your business, the roles you’re hiring and what have you as you’re reading, what if the roles you’re filling you’re getting specific. Is this marketing? Is this sales? Is it operations? Is it finance or is it the implementer that’s going to help make these things real? That will pay a huge dividend as you start to scale this and scale any business that you might build by business in those six buckets.
There are certainly a lot more, but that’s how I think of the starting point of the business. Let’s say in hiring, you can hire for tasks or tactics day-to-day one-on-one things, which is part of bigger project and process. When you’re going to hire somebody, for example, a way that we look at hiring any role, have some screen and sifts system to identify a right fit candidate. The other thing that we like to do is identify. If hiring for this role, whatever this role might be and whatever bucket we’re in. At the end of one year, if we bring this hire on, what are five things that have to happen for that to be a multiplier a maximizer for our business? Get clarity around that simple little exercise of being clear on those five critical things makes it so much easier to share the expectation with that person. Share what you know they’re building towards or doing where that fits in. It gives them clarity. It gives them certainty. It gives them a blueprint and a roadmap too. It starts with you having the end in mind.
Can you talk about how you use the VAs? You have two VAs there in the Philippines. How are you using them? What does their day-to-day look like?
I’d have to ask my project coordinator.
That’s the best answer. I love that one. I have someone on the show, I’m like, “You’ve got four freelancers and two VAs from us. What are they doing?” They’re like, “I have no idea.”
It’s got a role where I fit in. The VAs that we have from you, they’d be like, “We’re not doing that. That must be somebody else.” Technically, I would have to ask my project coordinator the exact things that they’re doing. They’re involved in a couple of things. Here’s an example. Some people have a desire to have a podcast. When we set up our process for the podcast and learn what we’re doing, all I want to do is I’m going to show up, I want to get my cockpit, I’m going to do the interview. I pretty much want to be done. That’s easier said than done. That’s essentially in many ways it’s not 100% that. I’ll share what happens. I spend less than about fifteen minutes a week on managing any part of our podcasts. I don’t know all the extra little details that are happening, but here’s what I projected and what I want to have happened. One or two of the assistance or helping in these roles.
Number one, when someone comes onto our show to do an interview, there’s a set of preset communication that’s happening to set the culture right for them to show up for their interview. We have a series of questionnaires that they fill out so that we have some background information to use, not only for the interview but out of the interview to help promote and advocate and all those and edifying champion. We have some images that our team is gathering before I ever show up. I show up on the interview, I get done with the interview, I dropped the audio file and video file in a Dropbox and then I’m done. From there, there’s a series of things happening. Show notes being written, headlines being written, there are about 68 quotes being created. There are image cards being graded for those 68 quotes. What happens is where does that time for me come in? It’s fifteen minutes or less every week.
Once the interview is all transcribed and all the quotes are done, I get a document that I look at. First, they look at it and do some screening on it and clean it up if there’s needed to be. I have the final review of it. I’ll review the quotes and sometimes I make adjustments and sometimes I don’t. Once it’s done, I say approved. They create all the imagery around it. From there we have a system where we’ve got 200 posts going on in social media a week from one podcast. I’m not doing any of that stuff. It’s all handled in the system. I believe that 1 or 2 team members that we’re working with through FreeeUp, part of their role is helping with manage that process for us. That would be one example that I can think of off too. I’m sure we have been doing other things, but that’s part of it.
That was my thing before I started a podcast. I’ve been thinking about it for years. I’m like, “I’m only doing a podcast if I can set up all the systems around it. I show up and talk to the guys, interview them, and that’s it.” It took us a little while to figure out the exact way to do it. You’re always making tweaks and stuff afterwards, but that’s the basic idea. Do you have a bad hiring story? Your worst hiring experience that you could share with us.
Having interviewed over 20,000 people in my career and having 1,000 work for our companies. I’ve got a few.
Which one stands out?
Get clear on your values and be non-negotiable.
Let me give one that may put a different twist on a bad hire. We were bootstrapping this business. I haven’t built companies using the Silicon Valley method of growth. All of my eleven companies had been built cashflow and bootstrap, shoestring model out of funding that we do internally versus investor money. I remember one of the companies I’d started, at the time when we started, there were 3 or 4 team members. Two of those team members of the four were sales reps. One of the sales reps, I’m going to call him Jimmy. We hired Jimmy. Jimmy was amazing. He was doing a lot of sales every day, every week. I wasn’t in the office that much directly. I had someone overseeing that. I remember I came to the office one day and I walk in and Jimmy, he wreaked away. Here are the top producers on my company. I’m starting, we need the revenue as much as any new companies starting up as you’re building momentum. This isn’t a moral issue. What you do in your private time is totally over to you. It’s pretty obvious you did this either half-an-hour ago or lunch and then came back and you did nothing.
I had a conversation with him initially and said, “What you do on your private time is your call. No harm, no foul. I don’t have anything against it. If I bring my kids in here, I’m not bringing my kids around this culture. I can’t trust you. If you can’t stay off of or away from it until you get home. It’s in the morning or in the evening. I don’t want any of our team smelling it or me or if I bring my family in here.” He’s like, “No worries.” A couple of weeks later, basically the same thing. He had a strike two call with him. He’s writing the most sales. Probably 2, 3 to 1. If you think about it, if you’re in that situation, what would you do? The third strike, I go on and I said, “If this happens again, we’re done. I hate to say it. You’re my top producer. I’m building a certain culture here that is family-oriented. I want to be able to bring my kids and my parents into the office and I don’t want anybody to feel threatened here.” Long in the short, you can probably guess what happened. Jimmy couldn’t help himself.
What ended up happening was we had to let him go. It was a hard let go at the time we were building the business. I can share that it was probably one of the best decisions that I ever made. It was at that point people talk about their core values. A lot of them are nice slogans on a wall and not real. You can get real on your 3 to 5 things that are must values in your company that your team and you live with because it is you. It’s a reflection of you, your value. It’s not projections, but it’s truth. When you get that clear, you can go conquer and dominate. I found that by letting go of that person. It was incredibly tough at the time. I was second-guessing myself for days and weeks after. I remember it like it. You could probably put yourself in that position.
We ended up tripling and quadrupling and business and started attracting even more better, right fit clients into our world. That’s one of a hire. I don’t know if that gives you a good perspective. If you’re reading this. Get clear on your values and be non-negotiable. Notice how we went through a three-strike process because I believe in giving people a shot. Everything can have a process. I didn’t overreact to it. I wasn’t happy about it. I certainly wasn’t happy letting go of all that potential revenue that we were losing. We ended up making it up and attracted even better quality people in our world, which ultimately that company we ended up building to 175 employees. We ended up selling it and it got acquired by a large company out in New York, which was a real blessing and a real gift. I don’t think that would have happened had I allowed that culture to multiply and grow because it would have, had I not stamped it out and made that choice in the early days.
That’s a great lesson. A lot of entrepreneurs think of the short-term like, “I’m going to lose those sales.” What you’re doing if you let that go on as you’re sending a message to everyone else that you work with that, that’s okay and long-term that’s going to kill your company. I completely agree. Let’s talk about consulting. You see a lot of businesses, 6, 7, 8 figures. What’s the most common mistake you see people make?
Number one is they’re not clear on who their client is. As simple as that sounds. There are exercises, build your avatar. That’s great. It’s better than nothing. Develop your buyers’ persona. It’s better than nothing. I encourage you to go deeper in the relationship. The number one mistake we see with clients is they’re not tuned in on their clients. There’s so much availability to get tuned in with your clients. You can go on Amazon and find the topics that are your topics related and see what people are complaining about, what they’re talking about? Most importantly, the language they describe it in and be able to use that language and feed it back exactly that way. Not your way, not your hypothetical theoretical way. Being able to go and share it the way they want to receive it. That is probably the number one way. We built a tool with our clients where we take people through this entire process, not only to go beyond the avatar but also if people want to scale their business, which a lot of people talk about doing. You’ve probably hired marketing advisors.
Most of us as we look to grow and scale, we bring some. I don’t know about you, but I’ve hired several people. I’ve made this mistake by hiring the wrong team members or partners to do a certain things. They look good on paper, but they didn’t connect the dots and move the dial for us and that sucks. That’s frustrating. What’s amazing is I’ve learned through this. If you’re going to bring someone in your marketing or your advertising, if they don’t have a profile that they’re helping you build for your perfect clients or helping coach you and go, “When’s the last time you picked up the phone and call ten of your clients and ask them what are they like? What do they dislike? Why did they buy from you? Why do they continue to buy from you now?” Not theorize it, talk about it and guess about it, but do it. I’d fire that client. I wouldn’t hire him. If you’ve got into a relationship and they don’t have a profile that they’ve helped you build and gone deep with it.
Not surface-level avatar demographics, but they might know geographics. They know the things that they’re reading, exploring and the organizations they’re a part of. It goes deep into the psychographics. They’ve gone deep into psychographics. What are their pains, frustrations, fears, anxieties? Things that keep them up at night. There are lots of availability of all this information that you can get, but you build it. Here’s another thing, if you’re not working with the marketing advisor, coach, consultant or some version of this, do this on your own as the business owner. Find a way to put this together. If you bring in an advertising expert, “We’re going to help build a profile.” They’re like, “I’ve done a lot of the work for you.” That speeds up the growth.
The first experience I had at this languaging science of the client. That’s what it is. You get in the heart space of your client. You can move out. One of my early companies who taught me. This is a guy named Joshua. He’s so brilliant it was frustrating because he looked at clients in a 360-degree view. As you’re reading, when was the last time you took the time to have a 360-view of your client? Joshua did. It was a painful process. We were hours, what I would call research. We put a campaign together and it was from that research that evolved and that built a $25 million a year business. Was that pain worth it in the beginning? Yes. We sold that company and it was acquired. That was an incredible blessing. It started with this piece and that’s what got me to understand. Where did I fail? I cheer way. I had three businesses that I crashed. One mistake, wrong partners, wrong clients. Two, I didn’t have a true grip on this thing, which is getting inside the heart, mind and soul of your clients and building that profile.
That’s the best thing. What do they say? It’s less expensive to learn from other people’s mistakes.
Here’s the deal, let’s talk through the elephant in the room. You’ve heard a version of this before. As you’re reading, I hope that you’re going to take some action. I bet you, it costs me multi-millions. I don’t know what it could be costing you. If you don’t have gone way beyond the avatar thing and have it and you’re reviewing it with your team quarterly or semi-annually and you’re reviewing it again each year. It’s costing you. You’re missing a little nuance. How much things changed in the last few months on that? If you’re not updating that stuff, you’re outdated. You don’t want to be outdated, do you? Take action on what I’m sharing with you, whether it’s our company, Nathan, has got resources. If it’s not us, find somebody that can help you through this process.
Dan, this has been great. Where can people find out more value and what are you most excited about for the rest of the year?
Easy way to get in touch with us, you can check out our site at Breakthrough3X, that’s one vehicle. We’ve got over 200 hours of insights, wisdom, strategy from some of the top experts in the world. You can go to GrowthToFreedom.com, which is our show. What am I most excited about? We love helping clients grow and scale with less stress at the end of the day. Help reduce suffering, get out of overwhelm, get out of the feeling of burnout and also take the glasses. A lot of our clients come to us and go, “I feel in the dark. I don’t know where my money’s even coming from.” Many of our clients are well-over $1 million already in business. That’s our sweet spot is $1 million-plus in revenue. What we do is we help give them clarity, certainty, simplification, to connect the dots. Where is that money coming from? How do we ramp it up, leverage it, optimize it, multiply it, maximize it and create the system so it’s not predicated on you as the owner? If you want to learn more about what we’re doing, check out our show because it’ll give you an idea of some of the things we’re excited about at GrowthToFreedom.com. If you want to have a conversation, see how we can help. Go to Breakthrough3X and there will be a way for you to contact us there.
Thanks so much, Dan.
Dan is a husband, dad, serial entrepreneur and angel investor.
He’s the founder and CEO of Breakthrough3X, and he helps business owners connect the dots, see the blind-spots, and get unstuck, by implementing unique sales and marketing systems to increase growth and profits, while making a bigger impact, reach, and contribution.
With almost 30 years of business experience, Dan has started 11 companies, coached over 5000 business.
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